Palisades resident, Andrew Kirsh, shares his story and what's next for the Palisades

THE SELF STORAGE REPORT — EPISODE TRANSCRIPT Episode: Palisades resident, Andrew Kirsh, shares his story and what's next for the Palisades Guest: Andrew Kirsh — co-founder and real estate attorney, Sklar Kirsh LLP Host: Chris Berg — Abernathey Development Recorded: February 20, 2025 Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1myBBOy5L_0 Key topics: the January 7, 2025 Palisades fire and the evacuation from the alphabet streets; Village School and the downtown Palisades village; sheltering at family in Rustic Canyon and then a hotel; roughly 5,000 to 7,000 homes lost and 99% of the alphabet streets gone; the Palisades reservoir dry and offline 12 to 14 months against a $130,000 repair bid; LADWP and the fire department running out of water; the timing of Karen Bass's state of emergency declaration; National Weather Service wind warnings and brush that had not been cleared for decades; litigation already filed against LADWP and the City of LA and the government immunity hurdle; underinsurance and higher post-January 7 rebuild costs; permitting and rebuild timelines of end of 2026 versus five to seven years; overhead power lines and dated sewer and water systems; Rick Caruso's fire-retardant materials and private fire department; families relocating to Manhattan Beach, Orange County, San Diego, Idaho, Utah, Las Vegas and Florida; California taxes and the 2026 elections Note: Speaker attribution reconstructed from raw captions. Light cleanup of transcription errors only; wording preserved. Timestamps and YouTube chapter markers removed. Turns marked [attribution inferred] could not be attributed with certainty. ————————————————————————————— Chris Berg: Welcome to the CRE Report. I'm your host, Chris Berg. We want to give you an update on the Palisades situation, uh, from a person who unfortunately lost their home in this Palisades fire. He's a co-founder of Sklar Kirsh, a real estate attorney, been on the show before, Andrew Kirsh. Andrew, welcome back. I really appreciate you taking the time. I think the most obvious question to start with, um, just how are you and your family holding up? Andrew Kirsh: Well, Chris, thanks for having me on again. Um, you know, we're staying strong. It's, uh, if it only happened to us I think we would have different feelings, but to know that there's, I don't know, 5,000, 6,000 families, maybe more, who are going through what I'm going through, it's, um, in one way you take comfort in knowing that people are going through what you're going through, but in another way that's what's so devastating, is that the entire community is going through this. So it's really a wave of emotions. And, uh, the question that you just asked me, I may answer it differently two hours from now, and that's just how every day is. Chris Berg: Well, I think that's why I want to have you back. Like, having that much uncertainty in your life when you've got a family, I mean, it's challenging enough just to get through life, let alone with that much uncertainty. Just to give people an opportunity to connect to what people like you and the Palisades are going through, um, if you don't mind, because I know everyone didn't see the really outstanding Zoom group call you did a while back, was about three weeks ago, but you shared a really powerful, heart-touching story about you and your son. If you can walk us through, like, hey, life is great, you're living in the Palisades, it's a new year, and then all of a sudden, when did you find out, oh my gosh, we may have to evacuate, and then you do, and then that night you're with your son and had a pretty heart-touching story. Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, well, I mean, to even go back, it's, you know, we had our winter vacation. My kids are 10 and 8. Uh, my wife and my kids, we were in Europe, uh, for two weeks. An unbelievable European trip. But you know how when you travel, whether you're traveling for just a couple days or traveling for two weeks, especially with little ones in Europe, and it's cold, and you know it's an urban type of, uh, it's not a vacation, it's a trip, right? And so we got back that Sunday, January 5th, late at night. Um, then they had Monday. Uh, my wife, who typically does this walk, uh, in the morning, uh, from our house, uh, to overlooking the bluffs and the ocean, she called me and she said, you know, we were talking about how great our trip was, but it was so great to be home, it was so great to be back in the Palisades. It was blue skies, you know, beautiful winter crisp morning, and, um, uh, she was just relishing of being back home. And then the next day the fires occurred. Uh, she called me at 10:30, 11:00 in the morning. She said she was going to take the kids out of school. The fire seemed, you know, not on top of the Village, which is where our kids go to school, Village School, which is right in the downtown Palisades. And we had been through this before, evacuations a couple times and fires in the hillside, but never in our wildest dreams did we ever think it would get to the Village. We are literally a couple blocks from a fire station, a couple blocks from Caruso's shopping village, the downtown, the schools, the library, the retail stores, the restaurants. We never thought, no one thought, who lived in what's called the alphabet streets, that the fire would impact us. And therefore, uh, we really didn't even take much of anything. And most of my neighbors, same thing. They hardly took anything out of their house because they thought, we thought, we'd be back 24 hours. Chris Berg: So you go to the hotel, and if you don't mind, share the story you shared on that Zoom call about just your experience, what you're seeing, and your conversation with your son. Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, so, uh, so later that afternoon, uh, about 4:00 or 5:00 o'clock, we realized, okay, um, because we initially held up at my, uh, in-law's house at Rustic Canyon, which is a mile at most from the Palisades. So when thinking back, it's like, if you're going to evacuate, evacuate, not just go down the road. Um, but that also lent itself to how we didn't think it was going to be that, uh, impactful. Um, so we ended up at a hotel that night. It was like a Palisadian refugee camp of, uh, of all families trying to get information, is your house still standing, is it not? And even that night, um, going to dinner, I knew things weren't going to be, things weren't looking good, but I was holding out hope. And then on the 11 o'clock news I saw Rick Caruso on the news, and he was just so angry, he was so, he was frustrated, he was giving a very sobering, objective view. And then I knew we were in trouble. And that night, uh, my wife and I sort of split up. We had two rooms, one room I was with my son, uh, my wife was with my daughter. And, um, it was the toughest night of sleep, I don't even call it sleep, it wasn't even sleep. Every hour I was basically up trying to find updates. Um, and I was extremely emotional, uh, sobbing. And my son would wake up, uh, he doesn't remember it now, but he would wake up, say, Dad, why you crying? And, you know what, Chris, it wasn't that I knew that we lost our house, it was that I knew we lost our community, that we lost the school, that I knew at that time, you know, that we probably lost our school, our Little League, the dance, where my daughter does dance, the orthodontist, the restaurants. Everything that makes a community, I knew was going to be gone. And so, what now? Uh, that is what was heartbreaking for me, having kids at 10 and 8 years old, at their peak adolescent years of enjoying the things that the Palisades had to offer, was really the worst of it all. Chris Berg: And what's fascinating is, just before we went on today, you said, hey Chris, I got to take this phone call, and right after the call you're like, man, that was, I think you said, number 10 out of 12 from my son's baseball team that are now moving to a different community. So I just, it sort of falls in line with what I think you probably thought was going to happen, and now it's bearing out to be true. Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, that's the real unfortunate, uh, look, the Palisades is an affluent community and there are quite a few families that have second homes. So if a family had a second home, they were gone within 24 hours, 48 hours tops. How long are they going to be in that second home location? It's unclear. Is it 6 months, 12 months, 2 years? The thing that's happening, and as we're talking with our friends who have left to, whether it's a second home location, whether it's a location that their parents or other family members are from, um, once they're at this new location, they're building new roots, they're building friendships, the kids are getting restabilized. To then take that family unit and come back to the Palisades and shock your kids' system and their infrastructure and their social network again, that's tough. So everyone is in this, um, uh, cycle of, it's not so much the short day-to-day term of dealing with insurance companies and lenders and contractors, that's the difficult part, it's the medium- to long-term decision that is the hard part of what to do. And so we don't know if they're going to come back, which I'm going to get to that in a moment. Chris Berg: Um, have you been back to your place since January 7th? Andrew Kirsh: Yes. Uh, it is as if my house and every other house in the neighborhood went through a cremation machine. It is unbelievable. It is just, it's like sand. Uh, the fire, um, I think it's about 5,000 or 6,000 homes that burnt down, and my neighborhood, called the alphabet streets, is essentially the worst hit spot. Uh, because the fire started, or they believe it started, um, uh, adjacent to what we call the Palisades Highlands, which is hillside. Um, uh, there's reports that, you know, there was a fire, uh, on New Year's morning. The fire department put it out, but apparently it was still smoldering, and the high winds that we had, the dry air, what people think is that it sparked, it reignited the fire. It wasn't, it wasn't sufficiently put out. But the Highlands and the hillside area, I don't know, it could be a good 5-plus miles from the downtown part of the Palisades. I mean, it is a long ways away. I mean, people are saying this was the size of two Manhattans that burnt down. So, um, you asked me if I went back to my house, right? So the alphabet streets, 1,000 homes, 99% of them are gone. Chris Berg: You said something a couple times that intrigued me that I just want to see, it's kind of a sensitive question, but you said, hey Chris, you know, we've evacuated before, I just didn't think anything was gonna go on this time. Why did you feel, hey, this, nothing's gonna happen this time? Or did you feel like, hey, the government's gonna show up, they're gonna, like, like what was there for you, like, ah, this is not going to be that big of a deal? And now, like you said, it's almost sand. Andrew Kirsh: You know, the hillside has had fires before. Uh, Brentwood hillside, the 405 freeway when connecting the Valley to the city, has had fires before. The Palisades hillside has had fires before. Malibu, of course, has had a lot of fires. They've all been contained in the hillside. They have not gotten down to the, um, the more urban dense part of the Palisades. Hasn't even come close. Um, and so that was our thought process, that the fire department would contain, uh, the fire in the hillside. If there would be certain homes that got burned or burned down, it would be those, you know, adjacent to hillside. The irony is a lot of the homes adjacent to hillside were saved because all the resources went there first. But with a lot of, there's, it was, it was a lot of factors. It was an extremely windy day, right? It was, it was one of the windiest days that we've had in LA, especially in West LA. But the fire department ran out of, but LADWP and the fire department, they ran out of water. Chris Berg: Man, I have so many questions for you. You're an attorney, uh, there's obviously litigation that's either happening and about to happen. I know there's a limited amount you can talk about there, we'll get to that in a moment. But my question for you, because you're an attorney, a lot's going to come out in discovery. There's a lot of theories out there about what started this fire, what happened, like you just mentioned, no water in the hydrant. And I mean, a lot of it sounds like you couldn't make this up. So as an attorney, and I'm sure you've done a lot of research, what's your theory and or thesis on what started this, and where were the lack of resources to help keep it out? On top of, I will add if you want to speak to this, there was a lot of National Weather Service warnings, if you will, about the winds a few days before, so it wasn't like it was completely unprepared from that standpoint. Andrew Kirsh: So let's go back a couple years when we had the hurricane in the summer. I think it may have been the summer of '23, I believe. And we were getting warnings, and I think Karen Bass even called for a national or a state of emergency. And what that did was it allowed her to, uh, be prepared and get resources from other jurisdictions, other counties. I don't know, maybe she got federal and state resources to be on the ground ready in case, uh, the hurricane caused damage. It turned out that it was a lot of rain, it wasn't a significant situation, and a lot of these resources weren't necessary. Um, so you fast forward that two years later, and we got a lot of weather reports, like you said, that we were going to have hurricane-type winds. But the state of emergency was not called until later that evening. So the fire started around 10:30 in the morning, my understanding. The state of emergency was not called until, I don't know, 6, 7, 8:00 p.m. that evening. And from my understanding, had she called the state of emergency earlier that morning, or even a day or two before, she would have been able to call resources from other counties and other states to be prepared. The LA Times had an article saying that even the LA County Fire Department had the ability to station fire trucks around the hillside area and would have, uh, prevented the spread of the fire. Um, you have that, you've got a reservoir that is dedicated to the Palisades that was completely dry. And what is so frustrating to me and my neighbors is that the amount, uh, of the bid to repair that reservoir was about $130,000, and it was offline for a year. Uh, there was a layer that was, uh, a covering, a protective covering, because it's drinkable water, uh, that was ripped, and, you know, bird poop was getting into the water, and so they needed to fix, they needed to fix that protective coating or layering. 12, 14 months went by without having water in that reservoir. Um, brush has not been cleared for decades. Rick Caruso has been talking about that. I mean, there are just so many things that led to literally the most destructive urban fire in the history of the United States. Certainly costly, the estimates are between Palisades and Altadena, we can't forget about Altadena, yeah, it's $250 billion. Chris Berg: I want to come back to that. First, you mentioned Rick Caruso a couple times. You're watching the news at night, he went live when he found out the hydrants were dry. When you heard that, what was your initial reaction? Anger? Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, just anger. Uh, it's just, I feel the government has one job, to keep us safe. Whether it's police or fire, just keep us safe. So, yeah, sorry, go ahead. Chris Berg: No. [attribution inferred] Andrew Kirsh: And they didn't. And look, I understand it's a very, very difficult job, okay, but the lack of preparation, uh, the lack of coordination is just crystal clear. And we don't do things as a preemptive measure. Unfortunately, we do things after the fact, and it's just, it's too late. Chris Berg: You know, Andrew, I know you're trying to be gracious because you're a lifelong resident here, and yet to say we do it, I mean, there's fires here all the time, right? You know, so I just think, again, I appreciate you being gracious, you live here, you got a business here, but to be honest, you know, this isn't unanticipated. So it's a little bit hard for me to swallow, and I'm not even from here, to see how this went down from a lack of coordination and just execution. So that being said, I know you can't talk about specific litigation, and then as an attorney when you go into discovery, what, give us the canvas here. Like, what are you gonna focus on? Where do you think there's, I hate to use the word opportunity, but opportunity to actually get your outcome? And what is the overall outcome within this litigation? Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, and look, I'm not, I'm not pursuing the litigation as an attorney, I'm a plaintiff. Uh, and I've been, uh, as an attorney and a member of the community, people have asked me, you know, do I think there's a case here? Um, we're going with, uh, Bole Law Firm, Kevin Bole, and in talking with him, who's a plaintiff's contingency expert, um, look, it's not going to be easy because there's government immunity, but any duty that the government does have has been breached, okay? And so whether it's the reservoir, whether there's transformers that may have fallen down, whether it's the, uh, lack of preparation, the lack of water, not calling for the state of emergency earlier, and as facts develop, it will be quite obvious that there was a failure on so many parts. And so there's many litigations that have already been filed, there will be more that will be filed. It's to compensate the residents who have lost literally everything. Insurance is not going to be sufficient. It just isn't, because, um, unfortunately most of the people that I've spoken to, me included, are underinsured. Uh, the cost to rebuild our homes post-January 7th is significantly more, that's the projection, than if one of us had a fire pre-January 7th. That's the reality. And so how to make up that delta? We didn't ask for this. In fact, I didn't even live in a fire zone. My insurance company did not terminate my policy like they terminated so many others who are in a fire zone. They didn't consider the alphabet streets a fire zone. And so when you just look at it from a 30,000-foot view, in 2025, in no way should 5,000, 6,000, 7,000 homes burn. We have plenty of resources in this city, in this state, in this country, plenty of money that should be able to prevent something like this from happening, even with sizable winds. Chris Berg: So this tort litigation, I'm presuming, is going to be against the state or the, like LA, LA County, all of the above? Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, I mean, look, there's been lawsuits that have already been filed with respect to the Palisades fire against, uh, LADWP and the City of LA. Chris Berg: Um, my question is, you and I both know at least a little bit about the balance sheet of the city of LA, and you're saying, hey, we just want to be made whole. Where's that money going to come from? Andrew Kirsh: It's unclear whether they have insurance, whether the state is going to contribute, whether the federal government is going to contribute. Um, that is at least what I see as the way to make these neighbors whole. Chris Berg: Which I understand. I think, as you can probably presume, I don't know how to really say this without, I want to say this in a very kind way, and yet there's a lot of people out there. Look, the Palisades, as you mentioned, very affluent area. There's not going to be a lot of tears dropped for that, even though a destructive situation. All of a sudden you're saying, okay, now the rest of America is going to pay for the negligence of LA. That just might be tough for some people to chew on. What are your thoughts on that? Andrew Kirsh: Um, I don't know, I look at it differently. Uh, I look at it as there's, um, that we have suffered through one of the worst, uh, uh, disasters, um, in our country's history. And whether it's hurricanes in, uh, Florida or, um, you know, storms in other parts of the country, regardless of the socioeconomic status of a neighborhood, uh, that's only a segment of the community, you know. The Palisades, um, I would say at least 50% of the neighborhood that I was in within the Palisades, the homes were built in the 50s and 60s, uh, yet had older residents still living in them, uh, certainly not affluent. Uh, they had just been lifelong Palisadians. And I'm not saying it shouldn't happen. Chris Berg: Andrew, I guess, like, when you talk about a hurricane, like, that is obviously a weather related event. This one, I think a lot of people are going to see, is just the negligence of leaders, right? So I think there's that distinction where, again, I agree people should be made whole, we want to take care of our people. Um, I could just see how some people, wait a second, these people did not do their jobs, and that's the view they're going to see it through. Does that make sense? Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, look, it does. And so I do believe that there is a change in how a lot of people, at least in the Palisades, view politics and view their government leaders and view what's important, uh, as to what government leaders should focus on. And that's why I go back to my original statement, that government's initial job, most important job, is to keep us safe. You know, for federal government it's probably from an external, uh, uh, invasion. For local government it's police and fire. And if you can't, if you can't keep people safe, or have people feel that they're safe, then the rest doesn't matter. Then you don't have a society, you don't have a community. And so I sure hope that, I know the Palisades will be rebuilt and I know it will be great again. I just don't know who is going to make up the Palisades. That is what, if you go back to the night of the January 7th and why I was so emotional and why my son asked me, dad, why are you crying, is because the community won't be the same. Our friends will have left, our baseball team will be gone. And you know, look, we're for the most part all, but I know there were a few fatalities, we are safe, we are safe. But I never looked at my house as a sort of, like, we have a family of four, two kids, my wife, me. It was almost like my house was my fifth family member, and I didn't realize that, wow, until January 8th, until the next day. Um, and it really became apparent when the house, the home, is what sort of hugs and, and sort of, like, envelops the family and keeps it together. And so over the last, how long has it been, six weeks, and we've been in an amazing house of my clients, we're at an apartment now. It's not our home, and so that is what's missing. We will get it again. Um, and I think that's what is causing so much heartache. It's like a family member has died, but beyond just one family member, it's like the community died. It's the death of the community. It'll be, it'll be rebuilt, and I think it's going to be even better, but it's going to take time. Chris Berg: That analogy, Andrew, was so powerful, about your fifth family member. So thank you for framing it that way. Um, you know, you're a very positive guy, even on the Zoom call you're one of the more optimistic people on that call versus some of the others, so I appreciate what you're sharing about being rebuilt. And let's just have an honest conversation. There's a lot of different theories out there around what may have started this fire, we didn't really dive into that, so if you want to share your thesis around what you think instigated it, great. Also, though, in the context of this rebuilding situation, like, when you tell me, hey Chris, 10 out of 12 sons on my son's baseball team are not going to be part of this community anymore, to me that says, hey, 10 out of 12 families are no longer coming back to the Palisades. So how does it get rebuilt? When you touched on this conversation in the Zoom, let's say that the Kirshes are the first family back in the Palisades. Do you really want construction around you for the next three to five? Like, you know, there's all those different variables that are just tough to chew on. Andrew Kirsh: Look, that is literally the conversation that monopolizes mine and my wife's and all of our friends' day-to-day, is the timing, and the timing of getting back into, uh, our homes. Some people feel like they're going to get back in their homes, uh, by the end of 2026. Others feel like it could be five years. We don't know, and we don't know because we are trusting the same government that has contributed to this problem. Um, it was difficult to build prior to January 7th. Is it going to be more difficult? Is it going to be easier? How's the permitting process going to be? What's insurance going to be like? Can we get insurance? What's the infrastructure going to be like? The Palisades had horrendous infrastructure, still overhead power lines and dated, uh, sewer and water systems. Um, I personally want, I don't want them to run, I want to be back into my home quickly, but I don't want them to rush, because I want them, this is the opportunity to rebuild a community not for 2030, but for 2100. Let's have the best infrastructure possible. Let's make sure this doesn't happen again, whether it's fire materials, whether it's burying the power lines, whether it's other things we can do to make sure this doesn't happen again. The Palisades is a beautiful place. It is right into the ocean and hillside and mountains and parks and, uh, low density, yet also have this urban feel as well. It was a place where my wife literally never got into a car. She walked our kids to school, we walked to Little League, to dance, to the restaurants, to the supermarket, you name it. It's very hard to find a place like that in LA where residential and retail and other services are within walking distance. That's what makes it so tough. It's very hard to replicate. Chris Berg: So, fair assessment, you know, is it 2035 and the Palisades is, as you said, great again? Or is it 2030, 2040? It's a tough question, I know, but just best estimation. Andrew Kirsh: Yeah, because you could be the first person there and your house is back, but you're living through a construction zone for years. And it's not just a construction zone of just residential, it's everything. The schools, the library, office buildings, retail, streets. You are literally building a city again. And I've been, as a real estate lawyer, part of these mass development projects. Uh, and the one thing, the Palisades, no offense to other communities that are more master planned community, the Palisades was not like that. They don't want to be like that. They don't want to have just a couple of floor plans and have every house look the same. That was not the Palisades. Um, the streets are narrow. Just the logistics of getting construction crews in and out is going to be challenging. It's a big debate. Some of my best, brightest real estate development clients think literally end of '26 first homes will be back, and other clients of mine feel 5 to seven years for sure. Chris Berg: Wow. Um, so what did Rick Caruso do to save his development there? Andrew Kirsh: Well, uh, if you, he's been on multiple podcasts and he's been public about it. I think it's two things. One, um, he used fire retardant materials, uh, that he learned was necessary because he built the Rosewood Miramar, uh, in Montecito, uh, and that was built I think right after a large fire up there. And secondly, a private fire department, which I would say is the main reason why his, um, structure is still standing. Chris Berg: And I asked it that way because if there was, I guess, what do you see was the biggest, I'll say, mistake or negligence on part of the government that caused this? Andrew Kirsh: You know, the problem was, and I'm not a fire fighting expert, but all the resources went to the hillside, and then as the fire spread quickly, there wasn't any, there wasn't any fire, uh, personnel to help thwart the fire in the alphabet streets or the Bluffs area. Uh, and the fact that the second largest city in the United States and one of the biggest economies in the world could run out of water, or the water pressure could get to such a low, uh, a low amount that they couldn't fight fires, is just unacceptable. It just is. This is 2025. Chris Berg: Have you gotten any answers on how that happened yet? Andrew Kirsh: No. No. I mean, one theory is that the reservoir was completely dry. Chris Berg: Wow. Um, anything else I'm not asking you, you think people should know? Andrew Kirsh: You know, it's, um, I think the issue is, um, there's no right or wrong answer as to what, um, a family decides to do. You know, almost like when you, if you analogize it to COVID, you know, some people left, some people stayed, some people wore masks, some people didn't, some people congregated, some people didn't. Whatever is right for a particular family is the right decision. Some people will stay, some people will leave, some people will switch schools, some people will stay. Every, every decision is so unique based on the family dynamic, the age of their kids, do they have a social network in LA, a family network in LA, do they not have a family network in LA, uh, their job situation, can their job be done elsewhere or does it have to be done in LA. And so I think this, similar to COVID, is going to be one of the more interesting societal experiments that we're going to see. And we're going to see this diaspora of Palisadian families go to Manhattan Beach, Orange County, San Diego, uh, and throughout the whole country. Chris Berg: Then I'm glad you wrapped it there, because I was gonna ask, as a real estate attorney, um, you know, you've got the World Cup coming in '26, the Super Bowl '27, the Olympics in 2028. I'm long Los Angeles. I'm curious though, because you've got a lot more experience in real estate than I do, are you long LA in real estate here? Or is it like, hey Chris, with no insurance and all the negligence that's been taking place, I mean, one of the guests in your Zoom moved to Miami, I mean, are you like, hey, I'm just not long LA? Or where you at? Andrew Kirsh: Um, people are angry. People feel let down. People feel that they pay, what is it, 13, 14% state income tax, they pay gross receipts tax, they pay high property tax, they just pay a ton in taxes. And what do they get for it? They got their house burnt down. They are pissed. They feel betrayed, and they want and have moved. My wife was looking at listings of suburbs of Nashville days after the fire. Now we're both from LA, we are lifelong Los Angelenos. I have a law firm in Century City. Um, my whole network is here. I walk down the street of West LA and I run into people. It's hard for me to leave. But I'm talking to people who are the same characteristics that I just mentioned, and they are testing the waters. They have moved to Idaho, to Utah, to Vegas, to other parts, to Florida, maybe other parts of California that they think are more business centric. Um, they're pissed. Chris Berg: So with that being said, my political brain goes, maybe this is an opportunity. And I say that, I know people have got short memories, and yet '26, Bass is up, Newsom's out in '26. I mean, based on the conversations you're having, you know, if Rick Caruso was mayor, maybe it was a different outcome, right? So do you think there's an opportunity? I look at California, Andrew, and I just think, man, with the, and the energy, all the resources the state has, this should be like the Garden of Eden. You're like, we should be Florida times a million, in my opinion, right? So is there an opportunity, do you think, in '26 and beyond, for some leadership change, to make America, I mean, make California golden again? Andrew Kirsh: 100%. And it has, it, I do, it has all the resources, it just needs proper leadership. And it had proper leadership before. Um, it's what made the state, it's not the reason why it made this state great, but, you know, you've got obviously great weather, you've got, um, all the attributes of why people want to live here. But I feel like our politicians in this state and city take for granted that people will always want to be here. And that's not going to be the case, and I know firsthand it's not the case, because of how many families have left. Chris Berg: Yeah, fascinating conversation, man. I appreciate the time. Um, anything else you want to add or share before we wrap it up? Andrew Kirsh: No. I appreciate, Chris, you having me on now a second time. I wish this wasn't the topic, um, but it's, you know, it's unfortunately, um, unfortunately it did happen. And I think that, uh, my final takeaway is, let's make sure we do everything we can that this doesn't happen again. There will always be fires, obviously, and we live on hillside, but there are so many protective measures that we need to implement so that the next generation, or forget the next generation, the next fire, doesn't do what it did on January 7th to both Altadena and the Palisades and Mal— Chris Berg: Last question, because I think you probably had some of these conversations either with him or at least within some of those circles. Does Caruso run for governor, mayor, or nothing in 2026? Andrew Kirsh: I mean, just follow him on his podcast, Joe Rogan and others. Um, no, he's taking, he's taking the Donald Trump playbook, who did all those podcasts, right, to reach as many people as possible, to use the new media. Um, I sure hope he runs again, and whether it's mayor or governor, he had my vote a couple years ago, uh, and I know he had a lot of my neighbors' votes. But I hope the city or the state, yes, uh, at large can see having a practical, entrepreneurial, business-minded, smart person at the helm is necessary. Chris Berg: I mean, all the candidate needs to do, whether it's Caruso or you, even if it was me, is just take that clip of Bass in Ghana with a reporter asking her questions and she didn't say a word. And I just think, you represent that, and you walk into the mayor, I mean, it's just, that was a shocking, I, you don't need to comment on those, you want to, but that was a stunning clip. Andrew Kirsh: Look, she, um, I don't know what she was doing there and how she was benefiting the city, but, uh, um, we needed leadership and we didn't get it. Chris Berg: We'll leave it there. Andrew Kirsh, appreciate it again, co-founder at Sklar Kirsh. If you have any real estate needs, you know, for an attorney, he's your guy. We appreciate it, we'll talk to you soon, Andrew. Andrew Kirsh: Thank you so much, Chris. Appreciate it. Take care. — END OF TRANSCRIPT —